“Thanks to the dedicated work of Ron Unz in California and other states, the practice of teaching Hispanic American students in Spanish under so-called “bilingual” programs, has been shot down and the test scores of Hispanic students have gone up”. –Thomas Sowell
Prop 227 sucked.
No suprise on the results. It’s about time they start thinking about getting rid of bilingual programs. My mother battle the system to keep me out of that bilingual program. Thank God my mother was smart enough to understand that in order to succeed, you need to master the English language. And to boot, she doesn’t even have a high school diploma, yet she understood this. Those that advocate these programs will only put those latinos at a disadvantage down the road. I almost get the sense they do this to keep the masses at a disadvantage so as to prop themselves up politically by going around and creating more programs to “help” them.
I just wish there was more of a push to teach english first everywhere, especially New York where I came from. They can always teach spanish or any other language as a foreign language. Preferably teaching a foreign language from kindergarden.
Why is it that America is the only country that doesn’t teach more than 1 language? Bilingual education certainly needed to be changed, but honestly, in addition to reforming it, it should have been expanded.
Early childhood is the most strategic time for language development. I don’t understand why we choose to cripple ourselves for the ever-increasing global market, by insisting that we only speak English. Students should be learning not only Spanish, but also Chinese & Hindi, since that is what the majority of the world’s population is speaking.
If indeed the world is flat, then we are in grave danger of being runover on the global highway.
How far up have the test scores gone?
For the record, I am not necessarily endorsing the conclusion that the test scores increased because of Prop 227. To be fair, Prop 227 had been implemented for only a short period of time before the tests were taken, so one could fairly conclude that it couldn’t affect the test scores as much as the results show. However, at the very least, it shows that the doom and gloomers against prop 227 were very wrong. But if you want actual data, here is a somewhat dated article I found by googling Prop 227 test scores,
Here is another interesting tid bit,
Scott, I believe other languages are taught in our public schools but at the high school level. The problem at hand for discussion is the bilingual program. Basically this program has most of the lessons taught in spanish with english being taught as a foreign language (i.e. one class). I agree with you that we need a greater push to learn other languages at a earlier age. However, as we all know, that is a matter of budgetting money & time which leads me to ask: How do we allocate our time for specific subjects? After all, the media keeps telling us that we are not even the top ten in science & math. What do we sacrifice in order to squeeze another class in? Any suggestions anyone?
Israel,
I agree with you about the complex reality that budget limitations create on education programs - including bilingual education. However, the blanket elimination of bilingual education revealed more about the mis-information regarding the various models - and results - for bilingual education that existed. You reference one model - a poor model - where english is only taught as a component of curriculum.
Also, one reality of current “immersion”/English-only programs is the elimination of broader curriculim - like science, history, art - from the classroom.
There are actual several other models for bilingual. Unz’s campaign was based on a simplistic approach - “Shouldn’t our kids be learning English?” - when English instruction is the GOAL & the PRODUCT of bilingual education that is based on widely supported educational philosophy.
For more info, read:
http://www.estrellita.com/reply.html
The worst part is that bilingual education was eliminated by political experts, instead of eliminated or reformed by educational experts.
Scott,
Your response reminds me of the practical argument against bilingual education. In many discussions on bilingual education, the supporter of bilingual education will talk about how if we had ‘the right teacher’, and ‘the right funding’, and ‘the right environment’, and ‘the right mix of student/teacher ratio’ bilingual education would work very well. But that is precisely the problem, we don’t have those scenarios, and given the inefficiencies of our public school system, we probably never will.
So you have a choice, do you chase an ideal that is likely never to happen but all the while hurting the very people we intend to help, or do you go for the practical solution, one that will give you much better results compared to how bilingual education is currently implemented?
And given todays ‘educational experts’, I find it arbitrary who makes the decision, ‘educational experts’ or politicians, both are probably equally worthless at addressing our educational problems (I say bring in the economists - vouchers baby).
Way to stick to your voucher guns (which I’m growing more open to, by the way.)
I think you have a valid point about ideal vs. practical. However, I don’t think the bilingual education debate is about ideal teachers, or ideal environment. Like any other educational program - including English-only immersion programs - I believe it should be evaluated by the merits of the program.
I don’t believe bilingual education was given this evaluation. Instead, the broken models for bilingual education - which sucked because they weren’t based on sound education philosophy & proven results - were held up as the sole practice of bilingual education, while the working models of bilingual education were ignored.
Again, I don’t believe in bilingual education out of mere humanist ideology. I think we are weakening our country as a whole by limiting the educational exposure for ALL kids - whether ESL, LEP, or English speakers. I think dual language programs should be offered to English-only speakers to better equip them for the global economic world that we live in.
HP, don’t tell me that speaking Spanish doesn’t give you a leg up in this economy?
I didn’t address the finances question, which I think, again, is a legitimate complaint. Finding a legitimate solution, researching various models & reforming the bilingual system requires funds - just like anything, education or otherwise.
I just don’t believe that saving a few dollars was what motivate Unz - since he personally invested millions of dollars & then the state was forced to spend many more millions of dollars to replace bilingual education programs, not to mention the bilingual resources that were - in many cases - simply destroyed post-227.
Yes, it does, but when I speak of bilingual education, I have another thing in mind. I get the feeling that bilingual education to you means another avenue for people to learn Spanish. Well, for me, that is a seperate issue. If the school system decides to start some program where it teaches all children a second or third language, I am all for that.
However, when I think of bilingual education, I think of it in terms of everyones shared objective, the stated goal of teaching Spanish speaking students english. Leaving foreign languages as a seperate topic for the moment, the question that must be answered is, “How do you most efficiently teach english to children that enter our public school only knowing a language other than english”? That is the terms in which I evaluate bilingual education vs english only education.
So if your point is that these students should still retain their Spanish, I am in 100% agreement with you, but that is a seperate issue than what is the fastest way they are to learn english; which is the problem currently facing our public schools.
PS: Another thing to keep in mind here, many of these children, like myself when I entered the public school system, know only Spanish because that is all their parents can speak, and only speak at home. So these kids will always have a place to speak Spanish, at home, and will most likely retain it regardless of what happens in the public schools. I know that if I didn’t speak Spanish fluently I wouldn’t be able to talk to most of my family.
But fast & effective aren’t the same. It is proven that students can learn what is called “survival” English pretty quickly. But studies also show that the long-road impact of this model of “fast” immersion is that those students English skills (as well as their other language skills, whether Spanish or Korean or whatever) than students who are in a dual immersion language program that builds English language skills off of existing other language skills.
In this, I am focusing on younger students, K-5. Which reinforces my point. Different models need to be utilized for different stages of development. My wife, for example, came to the US when she was 14, having had a strong education in Mexico. She learned English well enough in 4 years to be accepted & attend a top 25 school.
But she already had Spanish language skills with which to build on. Her younger sisters, by contrast, speak “better” English (less accent) than her, but have performed less well in school.
So, seperate from teaching foreign language, where we agree, I am also talking about the best program for immersion of students into English.
Hmmmm. Interesting, and I haven’t seen this side discussed much. So your argument is that students in English only will learn English faster, but at a cost later down the road? I wonder what data they base that on, and under what conditions.
My hunch is that the practical argument would still play a role here, but I don’t know much about it to say for sure. Again, I don’t get much into these day to day disagreements about how to educate our children; my focus is on the 600 lb gorilla, getting at the core of our educational problem, in other words, attacking the monopoly anti-market place structure of the system that encourages inefficiency and a lack of innovation. Or, to say it another way, I focus primarily on vouchers.
My wife did an assignment concerning the bilingual program. The interest comment she mention was the scenerio concerning two students who went to high school together. One went through the bilingual program and the other did not. The one that went through the bilingual program felt that she was at a disadvantage when both were attending college classes. In addition, my wife also mentioned that there were stats that showed that those who did not have bilingual classes, while having lower gpa in high school, did have higher gpa and were more likely to complete college than a person who was in bilingual class. Sorry, but I won’t be able to reference that stat for you.
Scott, I check the website. The one thing that struck me was on line 13 which mentions that as much as 75% of the classes are taught in english. Well, most college classes and business are well over 75% and that is the crux of the problem. While I can agree that all children should learn more than one language, I still believe that it knocks those latinos down a peg which could be detrimental in this hyper competetive world.
Israel,
Interesting you mention the two students. I have a similar story. I have a little sister who is about the same age as my female cousin, they are less than a month apart in age. The two were going to overall the same quality of public school, but my sister was taking bilingual education and the cousin was not.
My dad, who primarily speaks Spanish, didn’t know which one was the better option. But after a few years, he noticed that my cousin could speak a lot better English than my sister. He immediately requested my sister be put in an English only environment, and to this day talks about the huge improvement that had on my sister.
Of course small studies like this are prone to error, since the sample space is very limited, but it adds a bit more credence to my already held hunch that English only is better for our children.
HP,
Your reference for increased scores in grades 2-5 could also reflect the ’survival’ language skills that I earlier referenced. Because the standardized tests follow a singular form that is reproduced across a wide audience, teacher’s can (and often are forced) to prepare students for test success, not long-term development.
Getting back to 227 & its connection to vouchers, don’t you - as a high-proponent of choice - believe that the choice for bilingual education should be handled like school voucher’s, where the decisions can be made locally, instead of being mandated & controlled by the state?
Israel,
Your 75% example is valid, though it is somewhat out of context. Again, there are various different models for bilingual education, all of which (except dual language instruction) aim at full-language immersion as the concluding point. Therefore, it is not dangerous to have a 3rd grader - who will continue on a progression - being instructed at 75% English, if it will increase their overall success. That is different than having a high-school senior being instructed by this model.
If you respond, please at least acknowledge that you are referring to 1 of several models - that vary by age, language proficiency, etc. - for bilingual education.
Scott,
Actually, I tend to agree with you. If a voucher system were implemented, I would have no problem at all allowing parents to choose which school to send their kid to, a bilingual one or an English only one. In addition, I would also not have a problem with each individual school choosing which program to follow, English only or bilingual.
However, being that we don’t have that, I would still err on the side of English only, albeit reluctantly. English only is more than just a method to more efficiently teach children English, you can also make the case that it is a funding issue; after all, if we can’t properly fund it, it is doomed to failure. And one can make the argument, again, on even shakier ground, that it is a cultural assimilation issue. Everybody should, while also retaining his or her original language, be able to speak English. And on top of all of this, I take what the educational establishment, specifically those running the schools at the local level, says with a grain of salt. History has shown that they know very little about what education works and what don’t. Granted, the politicians in Sacramento don’t know anything either, but at least they are the ones doing the funding.
So just as Sacramento can require schools to teach history, to teach math, or to teach biology, I can see a legitimate argument to allowing them to force schools to teach English only, but again, this also rests on my hunch that English only works better than bilingual education. So I am not 100% in agreement with my belief, but I am a bit more than 50% in agreement.
HP,
Sacramento does have the right - and the responsibility - to establish the educational standards for the state as to WHAT should be taught in the classroom. However, mandating HOW something is taught is a question of educational methodology.
As an example, History can be taught by lecture, video, simulation exercises, textbooks, etc. Evaluation of which lectures, videos, textbooks, etc. is legitimate & necessary. But mandating the singular use of lectures only - and now videos, simulations, or textbooks - is asinine.
The goal of bilingual education is English language fluency. That is where Unz & 227 presented a revisionist misrepresentation of bilingual education. The difference between the DIFFERENT MODELS for bilingual education is HOW English fluency will be best be taught.
Also, a majority of school districts across the Open Court program by McGraw-Hill. The result has been more unified instruction & signficantly more teacher training to implement this new program. This also impacts test scores over the last 6 years.
In that same time, however, there has been a significant increase in designation of RSP students. RSP is the politically correct replacement for special education designation. A disproportionate concentration of these RSP students are 2nd language learners.
Do you see the connection? I’m not putting forth anything racially motivated conspiracy, but rather revealing a breakdown in the educational results mandated by the elimination of bilinugal education.
Scott,
This is precisely why I believe in this and this, there are so many good arguments on both side of this issue, both sides seem to be passionate about it, that is why it is really just best to open it up to the free market, and let the best man win.
This is part of why I’m opening up to the idea of vouchers.