Comments on: Economic Myths: The 5 Day Work Week And The 8 Hour Day http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/ Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:10:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: PeterTheNotSoGreat http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-191570 PeterTheNotSoGreat Sat, 01 Nov 2008 13:18:30 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-191570 You seem to forget that it was Ford's bad management decisions that have caused it to become uncompetitive with other automobile companies like Toyota. A case in point is Ford's recent decision to hire back laid off workers because they are going to increase the production of those gas guzzler F=150 pickup trucks (seems like some of us are addicted to these monsters no matter what). But this is just one example of how American companies have traded long term profitability for short term gains which in turn translates into lost jobs. Sure, eventually bad CEOs get replaced but unfortunately mostly after they have run down perfectly good companies down to the ground. You seem to forget that it was Ford’s bad management decisions that have caused it to become uncompetitive with other automobile companies like Toyota. A case in point is Ford’s recent decision to hire back laid off workers because they are going to increase the production of those gas guzzler F=150 pickup trucks (seems like some of us are addicted to these monsters no matter what). But this is just one example of how American companies have traded long term profitability for short term gains which in turn translates into lost jobs. Sure, eventually bad CEOs get replaced but unfortunately mostly after they have run down perfectly good companies down to the ground.

]]> By: HispanicPundit http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-190831 HispanicPundit Thu, 23 Oct 2008 00:23:38 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-190831 Melissa, Did you actually believe alot of what Naomi Klein wrote about Milton Friedman? Have you ever read Milton Friedman? Because anybody with even a cursory knowledge of the guy knows it was a gross misrepresentation. <a href="http://www.reason.com/news/show/128903.html" rel="nofollow">See this review of the book, for example. </a> Don't trust its economics either. For example, even liberal economist Dani Rodrik says the book is garbage...see <a href="http://rodrik.typepad.com/dani_rodriks_weblog/2007/10/bad-books-need-.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Melissa,

Did you actually believe alot of what Naomi Klein wrote about Milton Friedman? Have you ever read Milton Friedman? Because anybody with even a cursory knowledge of the guy knows it was a gross misrepresentation. See this review of the book, for example.

Don’t trust its economics either. For example, even liberal economist Dani Rodrik says the book is garbage…see here.

]]> By: melissa http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-190825 melissa Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:26:02 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-190825 If you believe in milton friedman you should read the shock doctrine by naomi klein. i think you will see that miltons extreme views are very harmfull to the middle class. If you believe in milton friedman you should read the shock doctrine by naomi klein. i think you will see that miltons extreme views are very harmfull to the middle class.

]]> By: Rebecca DeWolf http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-190182 Rebecca DeWolf Fri, 17 Oct 2008 17:31:40 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-190182 Can you please read Karl Marx's Capital...I am so sick and tired of people saying they have an understanding of Marx by just reading the Communist Manifesto ... guess what he wrote another text where he refines his argument and shows his admiration of capitalism but also its pitfalls. I know if is a big text (volume 1 over 1000 pages) but since you seem so interested in Marx and capitalism maybe you should check this work out. Also, think abut re-reading Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations, I think you missed some of his points. Can you please read Karl Marx’s Capital…I am so sick and tired of people saying they have an understanding of Marx by just reading the Communist Manifesto … guess what he wrote another text where he refines his argument and shows his admiration of capitalism but also its pitfalls. I know if is a big text (volume 1 over 1000 pages) but since you seem so interested in Marx and capitalism maybe you should check this work out. Also, think abut re-reading Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations, I think you missed some of his points.

]]> By: jr http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-186202 jr Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:17:46 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-186202 I think you overstate your case given your dependence on one example. I'm not as familiar with the USofA, but if you look at what happened in many other companies, it was clearly the power of people unifying that changed working conditions. Strikes in Toronto led to the legalizing of unions in Canada, and after that point they succeeded in reducing the work hours to 6days*9hours, and later added things like employment insurance and universal health insurance. Without the time of social forces unions brought (whether it was actually unions or not) children were the cheap workers instead of third world nations. People were whipped and beaten if they didn't make quota. I really don't like 90% of what unions do today, but historically they were necessary when our politics was run by a few elitist rich men. In answer to the "if you work hard, there will always be work for you," line---that's great if your health lasts. Most employers would still fire someone who got hurt at work if it wasn't illegal---after all they can't afford to pay someone who isn't working. Personally, however, I don't understand the requirement to join a union---it's completely undemocratic. I think that you should have the choice to opt out of a union, and I think that unions should not have a monopoly---if 30% of the workers join one union, and 40% join another and 30% opt out, that should be fine. It will make for chaos during contract talks, but eventually people will either get behind the more effective union or get rid of it altogether. If you opt out, though you should not automatically benefit from union contracts---you should have to set up your own contracts with your employer. Obviously, one of your arguments can be---"if you don't treat me well I'll go join the union." I think you overstate your case given your dependence on one example. I’m not as familiar with the USofA, but if you look at what happened in many other companies, it was clearly the power of people unifying that changed working conditions.

Strikes in Toronto led to the legalizing of unions in Canada, and after that point they succeeded in reducing the work hours to 6days*9hours, and later added things like employment insurance and universal health insurance.

Without the time of social forces unions brought (whether it was actually unions or not) children were the cheap workers instead of third world nations. People were whipped and beaten if they didn’t make quota.

I really don’t like 90% of what unions do today, but historically they were necessary when our politics was run by a few elitist rich men.

In answer to the “if you work hard, there will always be work for you,” line—that’s great if your health lasts. Most employers would still fire someone who got hurt at work if it wasn’t illegal—after all they can’t afford to pay someone who isn’t working.

Personally, however, I don’t understand the requirement to join a union—it’s completely undemocratic. I think that you should have the choice to opt out of a union, and I think that unions should not have a monopoly—if 30% of the workers join one union, and 40% join another and 30% opt out, that should be fine. It will make for chaos during contract talks, but eventually people will either get behind the more effective union or get rid of it altogether.

If you opt out, though you should not automatically benefit from union contracts—you should have to set up your own contracts with your employer. Obviously, one of your arguments can be—”if you don’t treat me well I’ll go join the union.”

]]> By: HispanicPundit http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-185669 HispanicPundit Sat, 16 Aug 2008 03:37:15 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-185669 Yeah, we all can see what unions are doing to GM and Ford.... Yeah, we all can see what unions are doing to GM and Ford….

]]> By: Tracy http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-185663 Tracy Fri, 15 Aug 2008 23:47:21 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-185663 Wow This kind of thinking is what has this country in such a mess.Walmart? Walmart is hurting this country! Buying product overseas .Putting Americans out of jobs.Not to mention the lead and God only knows what else in their products.I wish walmart would become unionized.They pay their employee's nothing.And hey wow if your there 10,15 years you might become a manager and make what?OH way below poverty level! I do agree union paid employees do raise company cost.But shouldn't we get a little bigger piece of the pie.Instead of working for walmart making them millions and getting paid 7.50 an hour? The company I work for is union.Guess how they are cutting cost? On excessive management.Who still make twice as much as us hourly employees.We make a great product.We take pride in our work.unlike overseas company he treat there people like they are not human.How well would make something being treated like a work horse and getting paid nothing? It's time for America to take a stand and buy what we make even if it cost a couple more dollars.Unions help make sure we get a little more of the that back. Wow This kind of thinking is what has this country in such a mess.Walmart? Walmart is hurting this country! Buying product overseas .Putting Americans out of jobs.Not to mention the lead and God only knows what else in their products.I wish walmart would become unionized.They pay their employee’s nothing.And hey wow if your there 10,15 years you might become a manager and make what?OH way below poverty level!

I do agree union paid employees do raise company cost.But shouldn’t we get a little bigger piece of the pie.Instead of working for walmart making them millions and getting paid 7.50 an hour?

The company I work for is union.Guess how they are cutting cost? On excessive management.Who still make twice as much as us hourly employees.We make a great product.We take pride in our work.unlike overseas company he treat there people like they are not human.How well would make something being treated like a work horse and getting paid nothing?

It’s time for America to take a stand and buy what we make even if it cost a couple more dollars.Unions help make sure we get a little more of the that back.

]]> By: The New Four-Day Work Week « Where Great Workplaces Start http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-183338 The New Four-Day Work Week « Where Great Workplaces Start Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:53:25 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-183338 [...] How did we get to the popular five-day work week that most organizations follow today? Certainly at some point in time there was no traditional “work week” and “weekend”. Generations ago, tradesmen worked every day, often for hours on end. One theory is that the five-day work week began with Henry Ford, who cut the work week short in an attempt to retain his employees, thus creating the five-day work week and the traditional weekend. (”Economic Myths: The 5 Day Work Week And The 8 Hour Day“) [...] […] How did we get to the popular five-day work week that most organizations follow today? Certainly at some point in time there was no traditional “work week” and “weekend”. Generations ago, tradesmen worked every day, often for hours on end. One theory is that the five-day work week began with Henry Ford, who cut the work week short in an attempt to retain his employees, thus creating the five-day work week and the traditional weekend. (”Economic Myths: The 5 Day Work Week And The 8 Hour Day“) […]

]]> By: Four Hour Work Week for IT Workers « Tech IT Easy http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-162044 Four Hour Work Week for IT Workers « Tech IT Easy Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:21:24 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-162044 [...] According to Tim Ferriss, it’s an arbitrary number we have collectively agreed to ‘work’ (I am sure he is half kidding when he says that). But seriously, this is how we have come up with 40 hour work week. Sunday has been a day off from work since biblical times because of Sabbath (In some countries its Saturday, anyway its day for spirituality). In late 1920s Henry Ford was having employee retention problem and hence decided to give Saturday off to his workers (What a perk!). It was Henry Ford who also decided on the 8 hour Work Week. There are 24 hours in a day and Ford could have 3 shifts of 8 hour to maximize his capital utilization (for more read article in Wikipedia and blog by Hispanic Pundit). There you have it: 8 hours ‘times’ 5 days ‘equals’ 40 hour work week. [...] […] According to Tim Ferriss, it’s an arbitrary number we have collectively agreed to ‘work’ (I am sure he is half kidding when he says that). But seriously, this is how we have come up with 40 hour work week. Sunday has been a day off from work since biblical times because of Sabbath (In some countries its Saturday, anyway its day for spirituality). In late 1920s Henry Ford was having employee retention problem and hence decided to give Saturday off to his workers (What a perk!). It was Henry Ford who also decided on the 8 hour Work Week. There are 24 hours in a day and Ford could have 3 shifts of 8 hour to maximize his capital utilization (for more read article in Wikipedia and blog by Hispanic Pundit). There you have it: 8 hours ‘times’ 5 days ‘equals’ 40 hour work week. […]

]]> By: HispanicPundit http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-68238 HispanicPundit Sat, 24 Sep 2005 04:14:02 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/09/21/economic-myths-the-5-day-work-week-and-the-8-hour-day/#comment-68238 Most of the middle class lives just fine without unions, remember, less than 8% of the private industry has union representation. In addition, if you look at areas where the middle class does have problems, as I mentioned above, they are primarily areas where union represention is high. Just look at the auto industry or the airline industry to see what I am talking about. With that said, I don't think unions are completely worthless, there are <a href="http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/08/04/what-unions-should-do-to-turn-their-dwindling-numbers-around/">some things unions would be good at doing</a>, and they do help in <a href="http://hispanicpundit.com/2005/04/27/what-are-unions-good-for/">certain very limited circumstances</a>. I just think they are not the good everybody makes them out to be. Most of the middle class lives just fine without unions, remember, less than 8% of the private industry has union representation.

In addition, if you look at areas where the middle class does have problems, as I mentioned above, they are primarily areas where union represention is high. Just look at the auto industry or the airline industry to see what I am talking about.

With that said, I don’t think unions are completely worthless, there are some things unions would be good at doing, and they do help in certain very limited circumstances. I just think they are not the good everybody makes them out to be.

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