Comments on: Time To Pray For The Citizens Of Venezuela http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/ Thu, 24 May 2012 01:30:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Fernando http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131582 Fernando Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:38:40 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131582 It's a pity that very few people are concentrating on the proliferation of a Nuclear Latin America. Ya know, the spill over from the debates that the democrats have politized over weapons of mass destruction. It would be an interesting read if some one would pick up on that one. :) It’s a pity that very few people are concentrating on the proliferation of a Nuclear Latin America.

Ya know, the spill over from the debates that the democrats have politized over weapons of mass destruction.

It would be an interesting read if some one would pick up on that one. :)

]]> By: Fernando http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131563 Fernando Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:04:04 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131563 Chavez is a CREATION of the democrats’ philosophy. In rich versus poor, in capitalism in general as well as the social structure. For certain elections Chavez had to go to the democrats to get their permission in order to pursue his policies, and why would the democrats support such a lunatic?? Other than the reason stated above the answer is real simple; To make this administration "Bush Administration" look bad. Their go between was Jimmy Carter, of course when he realized his mistake "Carter", he tried to back peddle, but by that time the damage was already done. People! Some of you have figured out that I am wheelchair bound for LIFE, and the scars that being in the wheelchair have given me is NOTHING in comparison to the scars the democrats have given me in support of dictators like chavez, As well as others. COMPRENDES???? Chavez is a CREATION of the democrats’ philosophy.

In rich versus poor, in capitalism in general as well as the social structure.

For certain elections Chavez had to go to the democrats to get their permission in order to pursue his policies, and why would the democrats support such a lunatic??

Other than the reason stated above the answer is real simple; To make this administration “Bush Administration” look bad.

Their go between was Jimmy Carter, of course when he realized his mistake “Carter”, he tried to back peddle, but by that time the damage was already done.

People! Some of you have figured out that I am wheelchair bound for LIFE, and the scars that being in the wheelchair have given me is NOTHING in comparison to the scars the democrats have given me in support of dictators like chavez,
As well as others.

COMPRENDES????

]]> By: HispanicPundit http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131554 HispanicPundit Thu, 11 Jan 2007 01:52:22 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131554 <strong>msondo</strong>, But farmland redistributions have been tried over and over again historically, and they have always failed. The latest example of that is Zimbabwe, see <a rel="nofollow" href="http://hispanicpundit.com/2006/06/01/the-importance-of-property-rights/" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Maybe the fact that fair market price is paid, much like eminent domain in the United States, will result in better results this time, but I wouldn't hold my breath. msondo,

But farmland redistributions have been tried over and over again historically, and they have always failed. The latest example of that is Zimbabwe, see here.

Maybe the fact that fair market price is paid, much like eminent domain in the United States, will result in better results this time, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

]]> By: True_Liberal http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131540 True_Liberal Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:02:37 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131540 I'm sure that conditions in Chavez' utopia are inspiring many thousands of other Latinos to immigrate there. (yeah, right...) I’m sure that conditions in Chavez’ utopia are inspiring many thousands of other Latinos to immigrate there. (yeah, right…)

]]> By: msondo http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131523 msondo Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:11:56 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131523 I know firsthand that much of the land in Venezuela is owned by very few people. One rich friend described huge areas of land his family owned which they were forced to sell to the government. They were paid the market value and the land was given to villagers to farm and develop. Part of the problem is that land has always been in the same hands for centuries and only changes hands to people of the same class. The land reform is meant to push Venezuela forward economically, not to mention to win votes. :P I'm not a big fan of it, and obviously my friend wasn't happy, but it is hard for me to feel too sorry for his type. All they are doing is liquidating land that is not being used otherwise. I know firsthand that much of the land in Venezuela is owned by very few people. One rich friend described huge areas of land his family owned which they were forced to sell to the government. They were paid the market value and the land was given to villagers to farm and develop. Part of the problem is that land has always been in the same hands for centuries and only changes hands to people of the same class. The land reform is meant to push Venezuela forward economically, not to mention to win votes. :P I’m not a big fan of it, and obviously my friend wasn’t happy, but it is hard for me to feel too sorry for his type. All they are doing is liquidating land that is not being used otherwise.

]]> By: Joe Gringo http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131520 Joe Gringo Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:02:07 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131520 The last 8-10 months I have been following the writings of Aleksander Boyd and Daniel Duquenal, both in Venezuela, they paint a picture of the anti Chavez crowd to be worse than left hating GW Bush crowd and alluded to the fact that it wouldn't be a surprise if in fact an attempt was made. I too doubt that would happen, but man, Chavez is really pushing the envelope. The last 8-10 months I have been following the writings of Aleksander Boyd and Daniel Duquenal, both in Venezuela, they paint a picture of the anti Chavez crowd to be worse than left hating GW Bush crowd and alluded to the fact that it wouldn’t be a surprise if in fact an attempt was made. I too doubt that would happen, but man, Chavez is really pushing the envelope.

]]> By: HispanicPundit http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131514 HispanicPundit Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:23:30 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131514 As much as I hate socialism, I would be strongly against any 'assasination attempt' by the United States or any other country of Hugo Chavez. Communism is not the international threat that it once was, and so as socialist as Venezuela gets, it is no real threat to the United States (the USA would always be able to whipe them out faster than we did Iraqs military). Therefore, there is no basis for which to assasinate a leader who has, while questionably so, satisfied the international communities democracy test. Chavez is Venezuelan's problem now, and though we all know the likely road he will take them, it is their lesson to learn, as dire as that lesson may be. All we can do, IMHO, is pray. Though I would be all for an open refugee plan that allows Venezuelan political targets free stay in the USA, especially for the Venezuelan women. :-D As much as I hate socialism, I would be strongly against any ‘assasination attempt’ by the United States or any other country of Hugo Chavez. Communism is not the international threat that it once was, and so as socialist as Venezuela gets, it is no real threat to the United States (the USA would always be able to whipe them out faster than we did Iraqs military).

Therefore, there is no basis for which to assasinate a leader who has, while questionably so, satisfied the international communities democracy test. Chavez is Venezuelan’s problem now, and though we all know the likely road he will take them, it is their lesson to learn, as dire as that lesson may be. All we can do, IMHO, is pray.

Though I would be all for an open refugee plan that allows Venezuelan political targets free stay in the USA, especially for the Venezuelan women. :-D

]]> By: Joe Gringo http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131512 Joe Gringo Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:08:13 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131512 I too pray for the people of Venezuela, it's incredible that Thuggo Chavez was elected, but I guess when it comes right down to it, the majority (62%) of Venezuelan's were stupid enough to believe and vote for an abusive, international grand-stander who fantasizes about going to war with the United States. Although Chavez captured 62% of the vote, opponent Manuel Rosales by far had the biggest crowds, enthusiasm, the best slogans and ideas (read below) yet took a beating. It is clear Chavez bought this election with the billions he had at his disposal, with his hold/power over the media and through intimidation efforts. Why do Venezuelans want this guy as President when their country has seen a rapid decline in Freedom of the Press, Political Rights and Civil Liberties, World Economic Growth Competitiveness, Index of Economic Freedom, Business and Investment Risk, Total Competitiveness Rankings is beyond rational thinking.......stats are here: http://joegringo.blogspot.com/2006/11/very-interesting-weekend-south-of.html Venezuela has so much to offer, a capitalistic goldmine, not to mention some of the hottest females on the planet, but we may never get to see that happen. I wouldn't rule out an assasination attempt sometime in the future. I too pray for the people of Venezuela, it’s incredible that Thuggo Chavez was elected, but I guess when it comes right down to it, the majority (62%) of Venezuelan’s were stupid enough to believe and vote for an abusive, international grand-stander who fantasizes about going to war with the United States. Although Chavez captured 62% of the vote, opponent Manuel Rosales by far had the biggest crowds, enthusiasm, the best slogans and ideas (read below) yet took a beating. It is clear Chavez bought this election with the billions he had at his disposal, with his hold/power over the media and through intimidation efforts. Why do Venezuelans want this guy as President when their country has seen a rapid decline in Freedom of the Press, Political Rights and Civil Liberties, World Economic Growth Competitiveness, Index of Economic Freedom, Business and Investment Risk, Total Competitiveness Rankings is beyond rational thinking…….stats are here:

http://joegringo.blogspot.com/2006/11/very-interesting-weekend-south-of.html

Venezuela has so much to offer, a capitalistic goldmine, not to mention some of the hottest females on the planet, but we may never get to see that happen. I wouldn’t rule out an assasination attempt sometime in the future.

]]> By: HispanicPundit http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131501 HispanicPundit Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:58:50 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131501 <strong>msondo</strong>, <em>No land is being ‘confiscated.’ It’s simply bought for market value and redistributed to whatever group will vote for Chavez.</em> Are you sure? If this is true, then there is much more hope for Venezuela than I had thought. Btw, while I am no fan of nationalization, I don't consider the confiscation of the oil industry on the same level as, say, confiscating farmland, or homes, or other more dangerous threats to property rights. I can see instances where one might want to nationalize an oil industry, but there are no instances I can think of where removing property rights on farmland or homes, just to give two examples, would not push one towards '<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.amazon.com/Road-Serfdom-Fiftieth-Anniversary/dp/0226320618/sr=8-1/qid=1168455580/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0112278-0735919?ie=UTF8&s=books" rel="nofollow">serfdom</a>'. <em>Chavez is no hero though. Human Rights Watch is starting to report stories of his critics being attacked on several levels.</em> On the other hand, maybe hope is already lost. :-( I'll be praying. msondo,
No land is being ‘confiscated.’ It’s simply bought for market value and redistributed to whatever group will vote for Chavez.

Are you sure? If this is true, then there is much more hope for Venezuela than I had thought.

Btw, while I am no fan of nationalization, I don’t consider the confiscation of the oil industry on the same level as, say, confiscating farmland, or homes, or other more dangerous threats to property rights. I can see instances where one might want to nationalize an oil industry, but there are no instances I can think of where removing property rights on farmland or homes, just to give two examples, would not push one towards ‘serfdom‘.

Chavez is no hero though. Human Rights Watch is starting to report stories of his critics being attacked on several levels.

On the other hand, maybe hope is already lost. :-( I’ll be praying.

]]> By: HispanicPundit http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131499 HispanicPundit Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:46:56 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/01/10/time-to-pray-for-the-citizens-of-venezuela/#comment-131499 <strong><span class="commentauthor">LaurenceB,</span></strong> There is a difference between 'regulated capitalism' or 'welfare capitalism', like Western Europe and Scandinavia vs more true collectivism that nationalizes even the telecommunications industry and 'other bold changes to increase state control'(not to mention changes to the constitution, and bans on free speech that Chavez is also pursuing). Western Europe and Scandinavia are sometimes called 'socialist' countries but that is more for rhetorical purposes than actual facts. While one can say they are 'socialist lite' (but on that definition, so is the USA, just more 'lite'), they are vastly different than what Chavez is proposing here. At the heart of all Western Europe (even France) and Scandinavian countries is still capitalism that allocates resources for the vast amount of goods. In addition, property rights and open free trade are central to the Nordic countries economic model (see <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2006/10/how_has_the_swe.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>). Contrast this to what Chavez is proposing and the differences becomes like night and day - Chavez wants <em>real</em> socialism. Chavez is proposing to change the Venezuela economic model to drastically increase state control, to weaken property rights, remove free speech, and who knows what else. Based on that record, the historical record is much more straight-forward and 'has repeatedly, universally, and clearly shown what results those policies lead to'. I grant that not all hope is lost, there are some indications that Chavez will continue a high level of globalization, will leave enough property rights in place to keep some foreign investment, and will try to pursue a 'business friendly socialism'. So Venezuela's future is not as dire as it could be, but it is certainly pointing in a very dangerous direction. Time will tell, I'll be praying. LaurenceB,

There is a difference between ‘regulated capitalism’ or ‘welfare capitalism’, like Western Europe and Scandinavia vs more true collectivism that nationalizes even the telecommunications industry and ‘other bold changes to increase state control’(not to mention changes to the constitution, and bans on free speech that Chavez is also pursuing). Western Europe and Scandinavia are sometimes called ’socialist’ countries but that is more for rhetorical purposes than actual facts.

While one can say they are ’socialist lite’ (but on that definition, so is the USA, just more ‘lite’), they are vastly different than what Chavez is proposing here. At the heart of all Western Europe (even France) and Scandinavian countries is still capitalism that allocates resources for the vast amount of goods. In addition, property rights and open free trade are central to the Nordic countries economic model (see here).

Contrast this to what Chavez is proposing and the differences becomes like night and day - Chavez wants real socialism. Chavez is proposing to change the Venezuela economic model to drastically increase state control, to weaken property rights, remove free speech, and who knows what else. Based on that record, the historical record is much more straight-forward and ‘has repeatedly, universally, and clearly shown what results those policies lead to’.

I grant that not all hope is lost, there are some indications that Chavez will continue a high level of globalization, will leave enough property rights in place to keep some foreign investment, and will try to pursue a ‘business friendly socialism’. So Venezuela’s future is not as dire as it could be, but it is certainly pointing in a very dangerous direction. Time will tell, I’ll be praying.

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