Comments on: Multiculturalism: Fact or Threat? http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/ Thu, 24 May 2012 01:50:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Benedict http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-281191 Benedict Fri, 23 Sep 2011 16:35:35 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-281191 I ran across your website, i believe your blog is awsome, keep writing. I ran across your website, i believe your blog is awsome, keep writing.

]]> By: hitider http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-274190 hitider Mon, 08 Aug 2011 18:40:16 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-274190 While we hash and rehash points of which cultures are smarter or dumber our country is rotting away from the rampages of illegal drugs and dirty politics. To paraphrase something I learned in typing class in the 60's...'Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.' Put aside your silly arguments with each other I don't care who you are, and see what is coming at you. Get your borders under control, your politicians under control, your children under control, and yourself under control, and in the process you may find real solutions. If you don't, someone else is going to do it for you and you may not like their process. While we hash and rehash points of which cultures are smarter or dumber our country is rotting away from the rampages of illegal drugs and dirty politics. To paraphrase something I learned in typing class in the 60’s…’Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.’ Put aside your silly arguments with each other I don’t care who you are, and see what is coming at you. Get your borders under control, your politicians under control, your children under control, and yourself under control, and in the process you may find real solutions. If you don’t, someone else is going to do it for you and you may not like their process.

]]> By: George http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-149798 George Thu, 21 Jun 2007 21:58:15 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-149798 I feel the need to respond to several points. There are factors that can prevent a child from going to college. If you live is a school district that performs poorly, that means that even if my child is the best in the school, the quality of the education is such that the child is still behind their peers from schools that perform better. That child will constantly be playing catch-up. What good is being the best when you can't score the minimum on the college entrance exams? The comment about the Zulus was rather uninformed since what was written was either lost or destroyed, ever hear of Alexandria? Columbus didn't discover america, didn't reach the continent, he encountered an island. As far as what those non-western books bring to the table is a window into the culture, a way of understanding the beliefs of others. You sound as if it should be about agreement. True debate only occurs when understanding is the goal, not convincing one of the 'rightness' of an idea. Recent immigrants to this country have no idea of the 400 years of white oppression black people have endured, and yet, we still fight. Unlike white privilege, which immediately holds the door open for all who are white, whether qualified or not, and lets them in to access all the opportunities with no limits. I feel the need to respond to several points.
There are factors that can prevent a child from going to college. If you live is a school district that performs poorly, that means that even if my child is the best in the school, the quality of the education is such that the child is still behind their peers from schools that perform better. That child will constantly be playing catch-up. What good is being the best when you can’t score the minimum on the college entrance exams?
The comment about the Zulus was rather uninformed since what was written was either lost or destroyed, ever hear of Alexandria?
Columbus didn’t discover america, didn’t reach the continent, he encountered an island.
As far as what those non-western books bring to the table is a window into the culture, a way of understanding the beliefs of others. You sound as if it should be about agreement. True debate only occurs when understanding is the goal, not convincing one of the ‘rightness’ of an idea.
Recent immigrants to this country have no idea of the 400 years of white oppression black people have endured, and yet, we still fight. Unlike white privilege, which immediately holds the door open for all who are white, whether qualified or not, and lets them in to access all the opportunities with no limits.

]]> By: Observer http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-149447 Observer Mon, 18 Jun 2007 06:00:54 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-149447 Mr. D'Souza, is such a clear thinker and has a wonderful ability to convey his thoughts into meaningful prose. I believe this article was excerpted from his book <i> The End of Racism</i>. I am currently re-reading it, and it is a treasure-trove of positive and useful information. I appreciate and enjoy the matter-of-fact tone in which he writes. And I think it is important to note that when he talks about "multiculturalism" he is speaking about a certain ideology and not necessarily about cultures. Mr. D’Souza, is such a clear thinker and has a wonderful ability to convey his thoughts into meaningful prose.

I believe this article was excerpted from his book The End of Racism. I am currently re-reading it, and it is a treasure-trove of positive and useful information. I appreciate and enjoy the matter-of-fact tone in which he writes.

And I think it is important to note that when he talks about “multiculturalism” he is speaking about a certain ideology and not necessarily about cultures.

]]> By: Capitalism Vs. Others - A Discussion at http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-145945 Capitalism Vs. Others - A Discussion at Wed, 09 May 2007 23:34:16 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-145945 [...] This post is a continuation of the discussion between me and tin that started here and continued here. [...] […] This post is a continuation of the discussion between me and tin that started here and continued here. […]

]]> By: HispanicPundit http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-145944 HispanicPundit Wed, 09 May 2007 23:27:08 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-145944 Thanks for the reply tin. You are correct - there are many issues that divide us and focusing on specific areas and laying out our definitions are important else we end up wasting valuable time. For now let us focus on economics and specifically capitalism and competing ideologies. Our economic biases are fundamental to any discussion and clearing up disagreements on that will lead to more fruitful discussions on topics like multiculturalism, imperialism, and history. To keep the discussion focused I created a separate blog on the topic <a href="http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/05/09/capitalism-vs-others-a-discussion/" rel="nofollow">here</a>, please join me in the comments section to discuss this very thing. Thanks for the reply tin. You are correct - there are many issues that divide us and focusing on specific areas and laying out our definitions are important else we end up wasting valuable time. For now let us focus on economics and specifically capitalism and competing ideologies. Our economic biases are fundamental to any discussion and clearing up disagreements on that will lead to more fruitful discussions on topics like multiculturalism, imperialism, and history.

To keep the discussion focused I created a separate blog on the topic here, please join me in the comments section to discuss this very thing.

]]> By: tin http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-145937 tin Wed, 09 May 2007 19:49:41 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-145937 i guess we could have a discussion on communism and capitalism, or on your (and D'Souza's writing) but we are truly so far a part in how we see the world, and how we even understand those terms, that before we could have a discussion it will seem to me that we will need to first define exactly what we mean by communism, capitalism, multiculturalism, etc. i don't think that i fall under the communist label (at least as described by Lenin or Mao, or even Che or Castro). If guess you can compare my thinking to Noam Chomsky, radical women of color and the zapatistas. you are right, it seems that i am more to the left than the American left. i do have utopian aspirations, a world based on the respect and nourishing of human dignity and not oppressive hierarchies/relations. i have a problem with how capitalism is guided by profit, by the objectification of people into workers, of work into labour power, of products into commodities to be sold. i have a problem with the state and the concept of citizenship which places unequal value on different bodies based on citizenship or nationality, of how it relies on force to impose its authority. in regards to democracy, i think its a great idea but we don't really have one here, while the majority of people do not trust the government and disaprove of the war on iraq, the u.s. continues to destroy iraq, the poor for the most part do not have the power to decide what goes on in their communities, on the issues that most affect their lives. so you see, we could literally fill a book with our back and forth, but i don't think we have the time. but let me know. maybe we can go little by litte. i guess we could have a discussion on communism and capitalism, or on your (and D’Souza’s writing) but we are truly so far a part in how we see the world, and how we even understand those terms, that before we could have a discussion it will seem to me that we will need to first define exactly what we mean by communism, capitalism, multiculturalism, etc. i don’t think that i fall under the communist label (at least as described by Lenin or Mao, or even Che or Castro). If guess you can compare my thinking to Noam Chomsky, radical women of color and the zapatistas. you are right, it seems that i am more to the left than the American left. i do have utopian aspirations, a world based on the respect and nourishing of human dignity and not oppressive hierarchies/relations. i have a problem with how capitalism is guided by profit, by the objectification of people into workers, of work into labour power, of products into commodities to be sold. i have a problem with the state and the concept of citizenship which places unequal value on different bodies based on citizenship or nationality, of how it relies on force to impose its authority. in regards to democracy, i think its a great idea but we don’t really have one here, while the majority of people do not trust the government and disaprove of the war on iraq, the u.s. continues to destroy iraq, the poor for the most part do not have the power to decide what goes on in their communities, on the issues that most affect their lives.

so you see, we could literally fill a book with our back and forth, but i don’t think we have the time. but let me know. maybe we can go little by litte.

]]> By: HispanicPundit http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-145889 HispanicPundit Tue, 08 May 2007 23:49:26 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-145889 Hey Tin, Thanks for stopping by. I apologize for taking a bit to respond but today at 2pm I had a midterm in one of my most hated subjects - Probability and Random Process for Engineers. This is my third class in the subject and it seems to get ~ (1- exp(2) ) harder with every term. :-) Anyway, enough about that - again, thanks for stopping by. Honestly, I've been wanting to pick your brain for some time now. I know that you tend to fall on the more leftist side of lefties in general, and given that I think most of leftist philosophy is nonsense, I wanted to see how what seems to be a logical person like yourself could be so into it. We could discuss whatever you like but at some point I'd also like to discuss communism vs. capitalism, or, as you would like to put it, tinism vs. capitalism. That discussion will get more into our different paradigms and why we hold them. You ask a couple of important questions regarding the West. I don't know if I would go so far as to say that western civilization <em>as a whole</em> is superior to other civilizations, but I would definitely say that many of the characteristics commonly associated with the west are indeed superior - things like capitalism, science, and democracy. Is someone ipso facto a racist merely by believing that the west as a whole is superior to other civilizations? I don't think so. Much of the west embodies what I would consider clearly superior virtues that are not found in many other civilizations so to say that this makes one civilization 'better' than another is not racist, unless of course, one <em>also</em> believes that the people of the other civilizations are innately unable to reach those virtues (what many people who oppose the war in Iraq believe, IMHO). As far as slavery and imperialism go, that was answered by D'Souza above (did you read it?), he wrote: <blockquote>Western civilization, they say, became so powerful because it is so evil. The study of Western civilization, they insist, should focus on colonialism and slavery, the distinctive mechanisms of Western oppression. But colonialism and slavery are not distinctively Western at all. They are universal.</blockquote> It goes on to detail what it means by this, and in the process, directly answers your questions on the subject. If you have time, I suggest you spend a few minutes (okay, several minutes) reading through it - its really good, IMO. Hey Tin,

Thanks for stopping by. I apologize for taking a bit to respond but today at 2pm I had a midterm in one of my most hated subjects - Probability and Random Process for Engineers. This is my third class in the subject and it seems to get ~ (1- exp(2) ) harder with every term. :-)

Anyway, enough about that - again, thanks for stopping by. Honestly, I’ve been wanting to pick your brain for some time now. I know that you tend to fall on the more leftist side of lefties in general, and given that I think most of leftist philosophy is nonsense, I wanted to see how what seems to be a logical person like yourself could be so into it.

We could discuss whatever you like but at some point I’d also like to discuss communism vs. capitalism, or, as you would like to put it, tinism vs. capitalism. That discussion will get more into our different paradigms and why we hold them.

You ask a couple of important questions regarding the West. I don’t know if I would go so far as to say that western civilization as a whole is superior to other civilizations, but I would definitely say that many of the characteristics commonly associated with the west are indeed superior - things like capitalism, science, and democracy. Is someone ipso facto a racist merely by believing that the west as a whole is superior to other civilizations? I don’t think so. Much of the west embodies what I would consider clearly superior virtues that are not found in many other civilizations so to say that this makes one civilization ‘better’ than another is not racist, unless of course, one also believes that the people of the other civilizations are innately unable to reach those virtues (what many people who oppose the war in Iraq believe, IMHO).

As far as slavery and imperialism go, that was answered by D’Souza above (did you read it?), he wrote:

Western civilization, they say, became so powerful because it is so evil. The study of Western civilization, they insist, should focus on colonialism and slavery, the distinctive mechanisms of Western oppression. But colonialism and slavery are not distinctively Western at all. They are universal.

It goes on to detail what it means by this, and in the process, directly answers your questions on the subject. If you have time, I suggest you spend a few minutes (okay, several minutes) reading through it - its really good, IMO.

]]> By: tin http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-145878 tin Tue, 08 May 2007 20:09:55 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-145878 hi Cassandra, thanks for replying. i don't really want to intrude into conservative spaces, i just that this week i have some extra time. i don't want to make this a 'postmodern' argument. there were those that oppossed slavery then just as they do today. is not so much about making anybody feel guilty for something they themselves did not commit (like slavery, genocide against native peoples, etc.) but about how that history has a legacy today, a legacy that gives some people privilege over others. much of what Europe and the U.S. has done in history is not really discussed or factored in to understand our current situation (of people of color in the US and of much of the 'third world'). however, i do want to talk about human rights, about even really standing up for those things that Europe (and EuroAmerica) is so proud of, humanism, democracy, etc. or for the values of Christianity, etc.(but really, other people of the world had similar concepts that sometimes exceeded Europe's, you just have to look). hi Cassandra, thanks for replying. i don’t really want to intrude into conservative spaces, i just that this week i have some extra time.
i don’t want to make this a ‘postmodern’ argument. there were those that oppossed slavery then just as they do today. is not so much about making anybody feel guilty for something they themselves did not commit (like slavery, genocide against native peoples, etc.) but about how that history has a legacy today, a legacy that gives some people privilege over others. much of what Europe and the U.S. has done in history is not really discussed or factored in to understand our current situation (of people of color in the US and of much of the ‘third world’). however, i do want to talk about human rights, about even really standing up for those things that Europe (and EuroAmerica) is so proud of, humanism, democracy, etc. or for the values of Christianity, etc.(but really, other people of the world had similar concepts that sometimes exceeded Europe’s, you just have to look).

]]> By: Cassandra http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-145871 Cassandra Tue, 08 May 2007 17:10:27 +0000 http://hispanicpundit.com/2007/04/13/multiculturalism-fact-or-threat/#comment-145871 My apologies if I speak out of turn by venturing a reply of sorts to Tin's contribution. Since all men are created equal the shocking fact that some cultures are superior to others has nothing to do with racism. It's just plain looking at the facts: what has a particular culture produced in terms of the advancement of humanity, etc. If a particular culture is inferior relative to any other, this doesn't mean that the people are bad, or less worthy. On the contrary. Bad things that happened in the past (or in the case of slavery, regretfully still do) don't require a postmodern moral judgement on our part. These events are just that: a part of history. Because we passed through history and have evolved into what we are today, today's morality is different from then: we cannot and should not pass judgment on that. Hope that answers your comments, more or less. My apologies if I speak out of turn by venturing a reply of sorts to Tin’s contribution.
Since all men are created equal the shocking fact that some cultures are superior to others has nothing to do with racism. It’s just plain looking at the facts: what has a particular culture produced in terms of the advancement of humanity, etc. If a particular culture is inferior relative to any other, this doesn’t mean that the people are bad, or less worthy. On the contrary.
Bad things that happened in the past (or in the case of slavery, regretfully still do) don’t require a postmodern moral judgement on our part. These events are just that: a part of history. Because we passed through history and have evolved into what we are today, today’s morality is different from then: we cannot and should not pass judgment on that.
Hope that answers your comments, more or less.

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